Glyphosate Extreme Danger – Dr Stephanie Seneff

Transcript
Intro
0:00
A lot of people don't know what glyphosate is, and I admit I didn't know what it was either back in 2010, 2011.
0:05
They panded it to be used to strip metals off of pipes because it's very good at chilating metals. I think it was
0:11
an accidental discovery that it killed plants. So then they panned as an herbicide. 1974, I think, was when it
0:17
first was available in the United States. So it is like all over the food supply. And it's not just the GMO. You
0:23
think, oh, non GMO, great. I'll buy that. That's not good because some of the highest levels are showing up in non
0:28
GMO products. It's basically grains and beans, legumes, and also sugarcane. So
0:33
all these crops are sprayed right before harvest. I actually collected some rain water in Cambridge at my lab at MIT and
0:39
I sent it off to Anthony Samil and he tested it and found glyphosate in it. So it's in the rain, which is scary.
0:44
Glyphosate is a disaster for duterium. I would say now that glyphosate's effects on the dutarium homeostasis is its
0:51
primary mechanism of toxicity and it has to do of course in part with disrupting the gut microbiome.
What Glyphosate Is and Why It’s So Dangerous
0:57
Stephanie, let's start out really general. What is glyphosate and why is it such a disaster for the human body?
1:04
Yeah, great question. So, a lot of people don't know what glyphosate is and I admit I didn't know what it was either
1:10
back in 2010 2011. Um, it's the active ingredient in the pervasive herb herbicide Roundup. Actually, lately
1:17
they've actually taken glyphosate out of Roundup that they sell to the uh residential market in the United States.
1:23
Um, so I can't I can no longer say that it's the active ingredient in Roundup. I have to be careful about that. But it
1:29
but people know Roundup, you know, it's really popular for killing dandelions in your yard. It's also extremely heavily
1:35
used on in the food supply. It's considered to be a great herbicide because it's quote unquote completely
1:41
safe for human exposure at at you. They don't worry about it toxicity with it. Uh they don't the government doesn't
1:48
measure how much Roundup is in the food, how much glyphosate is in the food. you know, they consider it to be perfectly
1:53
safe. And that's where the danger lies because it's not safe. And that's what I show in my book. I have my book here, toxic legacy, how the weed killer
2:00
glyphosate is destroying our health and the environment. Um, and I took quite a
2:06
ride starting in 2012. um when I uh was introduced to glyphosate by a uh a presentation by
2:14
Professor Don Huber uh two-hour presentation on glyphosate and I was blown away because I was looking for
2:20
causal factors in autism. I had looked for five years and I was coming up short
2:25
and um when I watched his two-hour presentation I became convinced in that
2:30
moment that I had found my answer and I have not deviated from that since then. So it's quite amazing. I did a deep dive
2:36
into glyphosate. I read everything I could about it and it was shocking how much uh it aligned with the symptoms of
2:43
autism. So I still believe it's the primary cause. It's I have to be careful to say it's not the only cause of
2:49
autism, but I think it's the primary cause of the epidemic we're seeing across the world and certainly in the
2:55
United States. You talked about this presentation and how that was such a pivotal moment in your career. What was said specifically
3:03
that made that click for you? Yes. So, I had been reading about autism and learning about their um
3:09
co-orbidities. The autistic kids often have gut issues, bloating, constipation,
3:14
diarrhea, discomfort, um picky eaters. They have lots of food issues. So, I
3:20
thought it's got to be something they're eating or maybe something in the water. That was where I was at that point,
3:25
looking for something um that would be pervasive and also going up over time. I was looking for something that was going
3:31
up over time because autism rates have skyrocketed uh since 2000 as you know
3:36
and so um so I I didn't have any answers. I mean a possibility to me was vaccines and I was certainly looking at
3:43
vaccines and I won't rule them out. I think they're a contributing factor but um but I didn't think that was the whole
3:48
story and so I was looking for something else especially because of the gut issues. It needed to be something in the food. Vaccines are not in the food. So
3:55
there's one problem right there. So anyway, I um he so he talked about uh
4:01
chelating minerals and I knew that the autistic kids had issues with uh uh in
4:07
you know mineral imbalances, minerals not working properly to different uh
4:12
enzymes being affected by deficiencies in in minerals and minerals get bound to glyphosate and that keeps them away from
4:19
um uh the enzymes that need them. Uh I knew about the gut dispiosis in in
4:25
autism. And he talked about how the gut glyphosate disrupts the soil bacteria and also the gut bacteria allowing uh
4:32
killing off the beneficial bacteria preferentially allowing the pathogens to grow. And then you get inflammatory gut
4:38
which is inflammatory bowel disease is one of the diseases that's going up exactly in step and is also a feature of
4:44
many of the autistic kids. And you have things like celiac disease you know with um autoimmune problems. Aut a lot of
4:51
autistic kids have various autoimmune issues like excellent asthma. Those are also I think a consequence of glyphosate
4:58
disrupting the way proteins are broken down to generate um antibodies that will then attack human proteins through
5:05
molecular memory. So it was mostly just the gut and also the minerals, the gut microbiome. Um and then the liver
5:12
toxicity u um you know the autistic kids have issues with metabolizing things like um acetaminophen which is you know
5:20
the government has been pointing out acetaminophen which is Tylenol as a possible factor in autism. Glyphosate
5:27
disrupts the enzymes in the liver that metabolize acetaminophen which makes it
5:33
more uh toxic than it would otherwise be. and not just acetaminophen but also other toxic exposures that you get from
5:39
agriculture. So there's a big there's a complex interaction between glyphosate and other things. But the key thing I
5:46
think is disrupting the gut microbiome which then really uh it's become very um
5:52
people researchers have become very aware recently that the gut microbiome plays a huge role in human health and
5:59
that it is disrupted in many uh cases of people who are suffering from all whole list of diseases. So the connection
6:05
between the disrupted gut gut microbiome and all these diseases including autism
6:10
of course and then the effect of glyphosate on the gut microbiome that adds up really nicely. And so um you
6:18
know generally I think it's just uh to me it's quite um compelling that glyphosate is a a causal factor not just
6:24
in autism but in a long list of other diseases as well. One thing that's really disturbing when it comes to the
6:31
microbiome, you quickly mentioned the fact that glyphosate preferentially kills the good microbes,
6:37
right? Talk about that in more detail. Yeah, that's amazing. And actually I I'm
6:42
feel very proud of myself that I when I after I watched that that presentation, I went back and started reading
6:48
everything I could with about glyphosate and I hooked up with Anthony Samoil. He he and I published several papers
6:54
together and the first one it was where we we we had in the title gut microbiome that glyphosate would be disrupting the
7:01
gut microbiome. Um and then we had a big uh paper that talked about our proposal
7:06
that glyphosate was toxic. Uh that paper was published in the journal entropy and um and you know they um the industry had
7:14
managed to get another paper retracted which was by um a French group uh Sarelini was the lead of that paper on
7:21
on rats exposed to lowd dose glyphosate. I had read that paper as that paper was that what compelled me to keep going
7:27
once I had heard the presentation I read that paper and I said this has got to be it and I kept you know kept looking for
7:33
for more data. That paper got retracted right around the time that our paper was
7:38
published and then there was pressure to to retract our paper and our journal stood strong and they even put a thing
7:44
up on their website that said they wouldn't bow to pressure from you know vested interests who they had a claim
7:51
that they they basically admitted that the industry was trying to get our paper retracted. So I was really pleased that
7:56
it stayed up and that paper talked about the gut microbiome and about glyphosate. our our prediction that glyphosate was
8:04
uh suppressing the beneficial bacteria particularly lactobacillus and bifido bacteria and what's pleasing is like 10
8:10
years later other papers started showing up saying the same thing with evidence you know through studies because we just
8:15
were kind of it was conjecture on our part to a large degree and so we were I was quite pleased that u we turned out
8:22
to be uh to be vindicated many years later by other papers that are showing up now and acromancy is another one I
8:29
was really Um I suspected that acromancia might be sus suppressed by
8:34
glyphosate and then I went to look and sure enough there was a paper talking specifically about acromancia. So
8:39
acromancia bifidobacteria lactobacillus those are all really beneficial. Acromancia has been getting a lot of uh
8:46
visibility lately because they found that it actually produces a metabolite that stimulates the gut endocrine system
8:52
to release GLP-1. And as you probably know GLP-1 analoges are a big hit right
8:58
now in pharma. so happy because they're making lots of money selling these GLP-1
9:03
uh analoges which are uh pretending to be GLP-1 and so you can think that we're
9:09
not producing enough because we don't have enough acromancia and that's why we have to take this drug and I actually
9:15
worry about the drug um really pretending because GLP1 I think is a
9:21
signal that says hey you know what the gut microbes are working fine and therefore you can go ahead and release the insulin do all everything you do
9:27
with metabolism If it's guts not working fine, that's when JLP1 becomes suppressed. This is what I think
9:34
theoretically. And uh and so when it's suppressed, then you you get, you know, you have diabetes, you get fat, all
9:39
these problems. But it's uh it's because your body is aware that the gut microbes
9:44
aren't working properly, which has huge implications for human health because the gut microbes supply really important
9:51
nutrients for the host. And if they're not working properly, there's kind of a red alarm that goes off throughout the body that says we got to be careful
9:57
here, you know, and strategies change as far as metabolism goes. In a sense, I'm
10:02
thinking that you need to sort of store fat around the abdomen because the microbes are not making enough of those
10:08
short- chain fatty acids that they normally make that are so healthy for the host. And the the butyrate in
10:14
particular is another one that I've seen a lot a lot of papers lately coming out on butyrate which is a short- chain
10:20
fatty acid produced by the gut microbes and it fuels the colonocytes lining the colon and so um that's their favorite
10:27
food and and and it's been shown to be suppressed the amount of butyrate is low in many different conditions that have
10:34
to do with gut dispiosis and including conditions like Parkinson's disease that having to do with brain problems. So
10:40
it's all connected to the gut brain axis. When the microbes aren't happy, the brain's not happy either. The
10:45
microbes let the brain know that hey, we got a problem here. So I think there's kind of a systemic problem that arises
10:51
as a consequence of a gut problem. And that gut problem is the dispiosis. Let's take that story even further. What
10:58
happens to colonocytes and then beyond? Yes. Well, then the colonocytes don't do
11:03
well because they're not getting enough butyrate and they become and their mitochondria in fact become uh u damaged
11:09
and so they they can't they're not working very well and then as a consequence of that uh there's sort of
11:16
you get a leaky gut is one of the things for sure is that the gut becomes leaky because the cliny are not healthy and uh
11:22
and that's been shown also experimentally with glyphosate that it causes a leaky gut and that's really a serious problem because then the
11:28
microbes can get across the barrier and all the uh metabolites that they produce. Many of those metabolites are
11:35
toxic and they can get across the barrier because of the leaky gut including glyphosate can get across the
11:40
barrier and also glyphosate can bind to aluminum and carry it across the barrier and then aluminum can circulate and get
11:45
to the brain. Uh I had a paper on on this idea that glyphosate is escorting aluminum to the brain and and aluminum
11:53
in the brain is a feature of autism. If that's been shown in post postmortem studies, too much aluminum in the brain
11:59
and of course also in Alzheimer's. It's very clear that aluminum in the brain is a factor leading to Alzheimer's disease
12:05
and both autism and Alzheimer's are going up dramatically over time. Exactly in step with the rise in glyphosate
12:11
usage on core crops. Okay. So the way I understand what you just explained with a bit more nuance,
12:18
the glyphosate is masking metals like aluminum, helping escort them through the leaky gut up into the brain.
12:26
The acidity in the brain allows them to unbind from each other
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and then cause the toxic effects in the brain of both of them. Both the glyphosate and
12:37
the aluminum become toxic once they separate. Yes. And that's a very very serious problem. So when it comes to the leaky gut is the
12:44
mechanism glyphosate directly impacting that or is that through the butyrate
12:49
and cutting off that that fuel for the colonocytes? Yeah, it's hard to know exactly what the mechanism is, but that
12:55
there was a study that demonstrated that glyphosate causes that. Um that I think there were two peer-reviewed studies
13:02
that uh that showed it experimentally that when glyphosate with glyphosate exposure the gut became leaky. Um so I
13:09
don't know that those papers understood what the mechanism was but I suspect it has to do with the butyrate um you know
13:15
inflammation um damage to the colonocytes and then um they can't uh they can't hold the barrier.
13:21
Okay. So there was a few different mechanisms you mentioned at the beginning we got into the microbiome.
13:28
One of the other ones was the minerals in the soil. Yes. So glyphosate is chelating minerals not
13:35
allowing plants to absorb those. So when we eat the plants they're going to be missing those minerals. And then
13:42
in turn if animals eat those and we eat the animals. Yes. Obviously there is a problem there as
13:47
well. So let's get into the mechanism and what minerals are greatly impacted.
13:54
Yes, in fact I had a whole paper on manganesees which is interesting and of course magnesium is magnesium is a
14:00
magnificent uh mineral so important because so many um enzymes depend upon magnesium as a catalyst. So a lot of
14:06
things become uh in trouble without adequate magnesium. Maganesees, magnesium, copper, zinc um let's see
14:14
what else. Uh those are the main ones I think. Um manganesees, magnesium, copper, and zinc um have all been shown
14:22
to be uh chelated by glyphosate. And um and of course these minerals are minerals are interesting because they
14:27
can be toxic. Um and I guess actually probably iron even. I'm not so sure
14:32
about iron. Uh iron. It does mess up iron for sure. I'm not sure to what extent it binds to iron. Um it messes up
14:39
iron through messing up enzymes that manage iron. So it's a complicated story. I wrote about some of that in my
14:44
book, I think. So um anyway uh uh manganese deficiency I think is uh is a
14:51
feature of autism and the interesting thing about manganesees is that glyphosate chelating it making it
14:57
unavailable um actually prevents it from getting uh recycled and glyphosate disrupts the
15:04
bile acids. So it causes a inefficient production of bile acids because of cyp
15:09
enzymes. Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver are suppressed by glyphosate and manganese normally is sent back to the
15:16
gut via the bile acids bounded to the bile acids and then delivered through to throughout the body uh via the
15:23
circulation and that pathway gets shut down with the glyphosate. This was a we
15:28
published a paper on this theory. Manganesees is interesting because it is actually very good at traveling along
15:34
nerve fibers and in fact there's a condition called manganism that shows up in welders because the welders are are
15:40
exposing themselves to manganesees when they're welding. They breathe it into the nose and it travels along the
15:46
alactory nerve to the brain centers and causes a condition that's very much like
15:51
Parkinson's disease. So it's an access of two manganesees from the air for the for the welder to cause Parkinson's
15:59
disease in the welder. But now you have the same system happening with the vagus nerve from the gut. And so the gut uh
16:07
glyphosate prevents the circulation of manganesees throughout the body which means it's deficient in the blood. So
16:13
there's systemic manganesees deficiency and then because it piles up in the
16:18
liver and in the gallbladder, it ends up getting sent along the nerve fibers because it travels so well along nerve
16:24
fibers. It goes up up to the brain centers in the in the in the uh brain
16:29
stem, the brain stem nuclei, which is really bad. And that's where you get uh Parkinson's disease. So you're getting
16:36
either through the alactory nerve or through the vagus nerve you're delivering manganesees to the brain stem
16:42
nuclei and then that can cause Parkinson's disease and so actually Parkinson's iso associated with
16:47
glyphosate many of the um herbicides are connected to Parkinson's and there's and I remember a paper that was fascinating
16:53
because they did um they looked at agricultural workers and they did a study on associations between various uh
17:00
uh herbicides and I guess maybe even um all kinds of pesticides that these people were exposed to and looked at the
17:07
correlation with Parkinson's disease. And they found a correlation for a lot of them. And then they actually did a a
17:13
step to uh to to take into account what else they were exposed to at the same time and to do a correction for that for
17:20
all the different exposures. And when they did that, everything else went down and glyphosate went up. In other words,
17:26
glyphosate, it really felt like glyphosate was the stronger signal than the other ones. So I think glyphosate is
17:32
a major risk factor for Parkinson's disease. Okay. So we know now glyphosate's poison. How much of it is the average
Why Even “Tiny” Amounts of Glyphosate Can Harm Your Health
17:40
person taking in? And then how little obviously you don't want to take any in.
17:47
It's a poison, but how little starts to cause problems. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's toxic at very
17:53
low levels. And there have been studies for example on on mice uh rats exposed
17:58
to glyphosate at low doses well below regulatory limits um showing a
18:04
development of fatty liver disease uh even with those very low doses and I mentioned the serini study that got
18:10
retracted it got republished by the way so it's still valid in a different journal and that study was really seinal
18:16
and that that was what persuaded me as I said to keep going with the glyphosate he basically repeated an experiment that
18:22
the industry had done. He copied their their whole strategy with rat rats and
18:28
the control group and all the treated groups and the and the number of rats and the particular kind of rats. He
18:33
copied what they had done and they looked for 3 months and they had a declaration that if you don't see any
18:38
trouble after 3 months, you're good to go with animal studies. You only need to look for three months. So they looked
18:44
for three months, everything was fine. They said it doesn't cause problems. Well, he Sarelini kept it going after 3 months and went all the way to their
18:50
whole lifespan and he started seeing problems at four months and by the end
18:55
of the experiment, you know, there were massive problems. The females had massive memory tumors, uh there was
19:01
kidney damage, liver damage, uh reproductive issues, early death, you know, all kinds of problems uh with the
19:08
exposure long term. So, it's a slow kill uh is an important point. It's a slow
19:13
kill and it also can be damaging at very low levels. Um and the regulatory limits
19:19
are not adequate. Um so it's all over the food supply and this is something my friends and Honeyut has been showing us.
19:26
Um as I said the government doesn't bother to test it. I think they've only tested it on soy one year and I think it
19:32
was in 2012 and they found it in like over 90% of the soy samples. So, it's,
19:38
you know, it's just like it's all over the soy, which is not surprising because soy is a GMO roundup ready crop. Um, but
19:46
uh Zen Honeyut um has moms across America. She has this organization and
19:52
she recruits moms to help her out and the moms can collect samples. So the moms collected samples of the school
19:58
lunches, the kids at the cafeteria, and sent them off for testing and and they
20:03
found glyphosate in like 95% of the samples of the school lunch samples. And then she did another study on fast food
20:09
restaurants. And again, that time it was 100% of the samples were contaminated with glyphosate. So it is like all over
20:15
the food supply. And it's not just the GMO. You think, oh, non GMO, great, I'll buy that. That's not good because some
20:21
of the highest levels are showing up in non-GMO products derived from um there's
20:27
a bunch of crops that are sprayed right before harvest. It's used as a desicant
20:33
uh to kill the crop, sorry, used as a desicant and um and those crops include
20:38
wheat, uh oats, um uh chickpeas, garbanzo beans, um lentils, um barley.
20:45
So, it's it's basically grains and and beans, like legumes, um, and also sugar
20:51
cane. So, all these crops are sprayed right before harvest. And that's really bad because it's short very close to the
20:58
harvest. So, it doesn't it hasn't gone away. It gets into the seed and it get it's actually there's high levels in
21:04
wheat germ, for example, because it tends to go into the seed as the crop dies. So, the it's they're killing the
21:10
crop because they're ready to harvest. And in in dying, it it goes to seed and it it synchronizes the yield and
21:16
increases the amount of um food you can get out of that crop by virtue of doing that desiccation process and also gets a
21:23
head start on next year's weeds, right? Because you you've already hit it hit the ground with the weed killer as to
21:28
try to keep the weeds out. So, you know, the farmers think it's a great idea to do this and of course they don't realize
21:34
that it's toxic and but I think it's a huge if we could just get rid of gly
21:39
used as an as a desicant I think we would be a lot better off as far as we
21:44
would get a reduced uh burden in our food if we did that. And I've even heard you say that it's
21:50
worse in these crops that are non GMO. Yeah, it's higher levels in those foods
21:55
and that's very dangerous because they can be labeled as non GMO and and you can think you're buying something that's good, but you're not. And that's of
22:03
course why I think the wheat I think it's very clear to me and I can't believe it's not clear to everybody that
22:09
glyphosate is a major factor in gluten intolerance. You know, we have such an epidemic. I for most of my life I was
22:15
not aware of the of that there could be such a thing as gluten intolerance. It was that rare. I didn't know about it
22:22
until I started seeing these gluten-free foods at the grocery store. That's what first tipped me off and maybe there's
22:27
something going on here. And then I and then I thought, well, wheat, you know, I said, well, wheat's not a GMO crop.
22:33
That's really weird. I I I immediately suspected glyphosate, but I couldn't justify it. And then, of course, I
22:38
looked and saw, my god, it's being sprayed right before harvest. That convinced and I have a paper, one of my
22:43
papers is on that gluten intolerance linking it to glyphosate. I feel confident, very confident that
22:49
glyphosate is the primary cause of gluten intolerance. Let's take a step back and talk about the history here. Who created
22:56
glyphosate? When was this? I know the initial use was intended at something
23:02
else and they've pivoted that and then we'll work our way back to modern day.
23:08
Yeah. Okay. Yes. Great. They originally they they discovered it was a good uh
23:13
because it's a metal chator. They thought we can use this as a pipe cleaner. And so the idea was to and they
23:18
panded it to be used to uh to to strip metals off of pipes because it's very good at chelating metals. I think it was
23:25
an accidental discovery that it killed plants that led to the breakthrough that
23:30
then they they thought, oh, maybe we can use this as an herbicide. Um and then they so then they patented as an
23:35
herbicide and then they um marketed it se 1974 I think was when it first was
23:41
available in the United States. So it goes back many many decades 1974.
23:47
Uh it its use didn't get ramped up until the GMO crops were introduced around the
23:52
end turn of the century. So and then once they had started using it for the GMO they created these GMO crops that
23:59
had a microbial enzyme inserted into the genome um that was resistant that
24:05
produced a version of this enzyme epspace that was resistant to glyphosate. And so this was great
24:12
because it caused the plant to be uh able to survive and even thrive even though it's being exposed to glyphosate.
24:18
So you could just spray the glyphosate all over the crop, kill off the weeds and leave the crop behind. Uh it became
24:24
a very um efficient way to grow crops. And so the farmers really really grabbed on to that and and the amount of GMO
24:32
versions of these core crops went up dramatically over the first decade of this century. soy, corn, canola, sugar
24:39
beets, alpha alalfa, those are the main ones. And um and then those crops became the core of the processed food industry.
24:46
And which means that it's higher this tends to be higher levels of glyphosate in processed foods.
24:52
Um for that reason and the reason that it basically gets a free pass is because plants have this
24:59
shikamate pathway that humans don't have. So it's given this pass of safety
25:06
but the oversight here is that our microbiome the microbes have this
25:12
pathway. Yes. So talk more to that oversight. That's a very good point because they
25:17
use the pathway to produce products that our cells can't make. I mean they don't have a pathway they can't make the
25:22
product and those products are super important to the host and in fact um uh key uh molecules that come out of the
25:30
shikimate pathway. So the sikmate pathway is this whole pathway and epsb synthes is a particular enzyme in the
25:35
pathway. We don't have the whole pathway. We don't have the enzyme in our cells. And that's the argument. It's
25:40
it's a pretty strong argument. It's attractive, right, to say, "Oh, great. We're not affected." But our microbes
25:46
not only have that pathway, but they use that pathway to produce essential nutrients for the host and in particular
25:52
the aromatic amino acids. And that's tryptophan, tyroine, and phenol alanine. And those are really, really important
25:58
molecules for us. First of all, they're part of the coding amino acids that go into all the proteins, you know, with
26:04
the DNA code. So, they're essential for making proteins. But more than that, they're precursors to all kinds of
26:11
really powerful molecules in the body. Uh namely, uh all the um
26:17
neurotransmitters like serotonin, melatonin, epinephrine, dopamine,
26:23
thyroid hormone, melanin, the skin tanning agent. I mean, all of those come out of the shame pathway. So if the
26:30
microbes are not able to make enough of these um critical amino acids then all
26:35
those things become deficient and you get really big trouble with your whole hormone system. It becomes disrupted.
26:42
Let's bring in glycine. And this is where glyphosate becomes a real problem
How Glyphosate Sneaks Into Your Proteins and Disrupts Your Body
26:48
where the molecule actually amino acid glycine looks a lot like glyphosate. So
26:54
it can sneak in. talk about the mechanism there. That is really crucial. I think I think
27:01
it's the really um critical reason why glyphosate is so amazing in its properties is because it is a it's a
27:08
glycine analog. Uh which means it's actually a complete glycine molecule. The only difference is that there's a
27:14
proton that's been taken off of the nitrogen atom and then a whole extra piece that has been stuck onto the
27:20
nitrogen atom to replace that proton. And that piece is methyl is a methyl phosphonate. So it's a methyl group
27:27
which is CH3 but it has a phosphonate attached to it and phosphinate is like phosphate but but one short on the
27:33
oxygen. So it phosphate is like P4 and phosphin is P3. So it's got a whole bunch of extra stuff there. You know the
27:39
methyl group and the phosphinate. The phosphinate is negatively charged. Um it it greatly changes the properties of the
27:46
molecule by virtue of that extra material stuck on the nitrogen atom. But it's still glycine. The whole thing is
27:52
glycine. And so it actually matches it goes where glycine goes and it disrupts
27:58
glycine everywhere it goes because it pretends to be glycine but then it has
28:04
that extra material which messes up everything. So what I theorize in my book and it's actually a central story
28:10
in my book is that glyphosate is getting into proteins by mistake in in place of
28:16
glycine during the coding process. So you see the code for glycine you the assembly machine and the machine is very
28:24
elegant. You know it has a specific code for each one of the amino acids. So the code for glycine has to fit glycine
28:30
inside a little uh area that's very small. Glycine is the smallest amino acid. So that particular um protein that
28:38
that is one that that matches glycine that that grabs glycine to put it into the code into the assembled protein. um
28:46
glycine fits into this little socket that it creates and so does glyphosate because the nitrogen has to stay outside
28:52
of the socket because it has to hook up to the chain. So the part of gly glyphosate that is glycine fits into the
28:58
socket beautifully. None of the other amino acids do. So it's how it can select for glycine but it can also
29:04
select for glyphosate. So glyphosate gets in there as long as there's not um really bulky amino acids next door. So
29:10
if there's room for that methyl phosphinate and the situation where there typically is room is in the place
29:16
in the in the enzyme where it binds phosphate. So phosphinate and phosphate are very similar. Glyphosate can put its
29:23
extra piece into that slot into the hole that's reserved for the substrate because the substrate needs has a
29:29
phosphate that needs to fit in there. glyphosate can take advantage of that space to put its own phosphonate there
29:36
and that completely blocks the ability of the substrate to bind which completely ruins the protein and there
29:41
are lots and lots of proteins that bind phosphate as I showed in my book. I keep discovering more and it's um it's
29:47
amazing. They're typically buying phosphate at a site where at least one glycine residue is highly conserved and
29:53
that means that that glycine is critical for the protein to work even when you just change it to alanine which is a
29:58
very small change just an extra methyl group it it can be completely destroyed in its ability to do its job. And so
30:05
glyphosate um uh it goes in there instead of glycine and turns into a
30:11
bulky completely different molecule negatively charged and completely disrupts the enzyme's ability to do its
30:17
job. So you can just replace one glycine in one of these molecules, one of these proteins with a glyphosate and you can
30:23
ruin its ability to do its job. And so I think there are glyphosate bullets all over the body that are glyphosate
30:30
molecules stuck inside proteins where they shouldn't be and messing up those proteins um uh performance and causing
30:37
disease. Okay, this is really important. I want to go even deeper here to make sure I understand. We take in glyphosate in the
30:44
body. When we're making new proteins, the cell makes a mistake where there
30:50
would be a glycine and puts the glyphosate in there. Yeah. which is going to change the protein, change its function. So,
31:00
are the proteins detectable by us? Can we look at a human
31:05
body right now and see how many of our proteins have this change? There is actually a
31:12
whole technology that allows you to do exactly that. And and um and it turns out there's a group of researchers who
31:18
published a paper uh where they did that and they actually looked for glyphosate substitution. And it's pretty cool
31:24
technology because you can actually weigh the protein and if it's it's going to be heavier if there's this extra
31:29
pieces from the glyphosate in there and they know exactly how much heavier it's going to be. So they can determine
31:34
whether there is a glyphosate substitution for glycine in the protein that's produced by virtue of that extra
31:39
weight. And so there was a paper published on that and that paper said something like the title was something like glyphosate does not substitute for
31:46
glycine during protein synthesis. Something like that. the title does not and but when you read the paper you say
31:54
oh my god these guys actually found it and they have a a figure two I think it is they have this big picture of these
32:00
little boxes and each box has a um a particular protein that got uh that where they found they detected
32:06
glyphosate substitution as certain glycines and that in each box has a in tiny tiny print above it the sequence
32:13
that they in that that amino acid sequence that they found where that glyphosate was there because it was too
32:18
heavy. the glycine was too heavy by exactly the right amount to be glyphosate. And they had 12 of these 12
32:24
different am uh pro amino acid sequences which I basically wrote down and looked
32:29
up because you can look them up and find out what protein they're in. And I wrote a little um I wrote I wrote an article
32:34
and put up on my website where I critiqued that paper and showed that those particular proteins uh nine of
32:41
them had were binding phosphate. I mean they were they were really beautiful um examples of my glyphosate substitution
32:48
theory that the places where the glycines were being substituted made sense to me um for those proteins and
32:54
and um and then uh what I felt was that the experiment was so they claimed that
33:00
everything was was a mistake. All of it was noise uh because they found kind of equal amounts in both the treated group
33:07
and the untreated group. So they had and what they were treating was cancer cells and these cancer cells had been
33:12
maintained in culture for decades. They came from an ancient um um a person who
33:18
had a woman who had breast cancer and they've maintained these cells are famous. They're used in lots of studies.
33:23
So they were uh they've been grown in culture for many many decades and when you grow them in culture you feed them
33:29
nutrients that are almost certainly contaminated with glyphosate. So these cells have been both the treated and
33:35
untreated group have been exposed to lots of glyphosate throughout their many decades of living in a in a culture and
33:42
they've both picked up lots of glyphosate molecules and stuck them into various proteins and then when they're
33:47
grown in the experiment uh they break down those proteins release the glyphosate and put it into a different
33:53
protein. So they make new proteins and put the glyphosate in there that they got from the previous protein that was broken down in the whole process of
33:59
living. So I think uh it's it's it's it's uh expected that the treat untreated group would have also lots of
34:06
glyphosate substitutions and so um so my feeling is that they um they didn't
34:12
trust their data because the both uh both groups had equal amounts but they
34:17
should have trust their data because the data is really striking in terms of which particular sequences where glyate
34:23
was found as a substitution makes a whole lot of sense given what we know now about what you
34:28
just head. Do we have any idea percentage-wise
34:34
proteins in our body that might be affected by this? Yeah, percentage- wise it's hard to say,
34:39
but I do think collagen is one to worry about because collagen has huge swats of glycine. It it goes for a long sequence
34:45
of GXY, GXY, GXY where every third amino acid is a glycine. Tremendous opportunity for glyphosate to
34:51
substitute. And there are various diseases, genetic diseases um that are
34:56
caused by um a single glycine in collagen can be substituted by something else to cause um these genetic diseases
35:04
that the disease that has like where you can fold your fingers way back, you know, really flexible joints. Um a
35:09
condition um I forget what that's called, but um I can't pronounce it. Etho Danalos
35:15
syndrome, something like that. L A I know. E H L E R A DOS syndrome.
35:21
Thank you. I'd forgotten that. I wrote about it in my book. So, um, yeah. So, that one is actually going up in
35:27
prevalence. Uh, even though it's a genetic disease, so that doesn't really make sense. But if it is in fact
35:33
glyphosate substituting for glycines is going to cause a similar effect. And so,
35:38
if and especially if you already have the genetic predisposition, you're going to be more likely to have trouble early
35:44
if you're also being exposed to glyphosate. Um, also, that's right.
35:49
Yeah. The reason I'm so curious, it sounds like a lot of our proteins in the modern world would be affected by this
35:55
given yes the environment. How functional are those proteins? If we're
36:01
now accumulating all these hits over the years and it's so pervasive,
36:06
how well are these proteins working in our bodies? Well, this is where it gets really really complicated and this is why I
36:12
think life is is causal in so many. You know, people say people argue back with me. I have all these correlations that
36:18
are going up. you know all these diseases going up dramatically exactly in step with glyphosate usage and then
36:23
people fire back a correlation doesn't mean causation and then they say how could one chemical cause so many
36:29
diseases right those are the two sort of push backs on that claim and I think both are answerable because uh
36:36
glyphosate's a mechanism of toxicity is so broad and and so widespread in terms
36:41
of the damage that it does throughout your body that I can believe it could cause all those different diseases uh by
36:47
virtue of affecting all these different proteins that it affects um it's there's a huge list and I can give you one
36:53
example which is the protein there's a contractile protein called meosin and
36:58
meosin in the gut masin has I think 11 glycines that are highly conserved whenever it's highly conserved that
37:04
means it's important so I do that when I do my search I look for highly conserved glycines and then I look for their
37:10
environment to see if they match my you know where they bind phosphate I have a whole list of things I look for to find
37:16
a target protein that I suspect would be especially susceptible to glyphosate and meosin definitely stands out. And so
37:22
there was a study on measin and there was a single um glycine that they looked at in measin one of the highly conserved
37:29
glycines and they experimented with substituting alanine for the glycine. Now that's the smallest change you can
37:34
do. It has an extra methyl group and then they discovered that when you have a version of meosin that has alanine
37:40
instead of glycine it can only contract at 2% capacity 2%. So that is just
37:46
really surprising amazing really that that small change can have such a big effect on it. And um and so uh they also
37:53
showed that if only if only 2% of the of the versions of that protein in a muscle
37:59
fiber had that problem then the whole muscle fiber can only contract at 50% capacity because they sort of get in the
38:06
way of of the guys that are still working. So glyphosate you know doesn't wreck every single molecule in there. it
38:11
only wrecks some, but if it were to disturb 2%, it would cause the meosin uh
38:16
the muscle fiber to only be contra able to contract at 50% capacity. So that's pretty huge, you know, and so and then
38:23
if you look at gut paralysis, there was a study on a a woman who tried to kill herself by drinking a glyphosate
38:28
formulation and um and it one and then they had an article about to look at what were the effects of that on her
38:35
body, you know, to try to understand what is it doing. And one of the things they pointed out was very striking that it caused gut paralysis for this woman.
38:42
And that's probably because it messed up the meosin so drastically that her gut became paralyzed.
38:47
For somebody, which is all of us by what we're saying here, who's incorporated
38:53
glyphosate into our proteins in our bodies? What's the best we can do at that point?
38:58
Once it's incorporated, can we get it out of the protein? I assume not, but what do we do? That's what's really hard. I mean it I
39:05
think it completely um it continually recycles in your body like you've got a a protein that's got some glyphosate in
39:11
it and then that protein you know proteins get recycled all the time. So that protein goes into the um glycosome
39:18
gets gets you know gets broken down into individual amino acids and then there's your glycine glyphosate free again and
39:24
now we can go find another protein. So I think the glyphosate is constantly shuffling around into different proteins
39:30
in your body causing different kinds of disturbances all the time. So you've got glyphos glyphosate bullets all over your
39:36
body if you've been living with glyphosate for decades, you know, which we have at this point. And I think we
39:42
all have lots of glyphosate scattered throughout our bodies in various proteins um ready to to do some more
39:49
damage with some other you know if you get unlucky and it happens to go into a particular protein that has devastating
39:55
effects. Um even for example Alzheimer's disease is pretty amazing because there's this gxxgxxg
40:03
motif that's a characteristic feature of um proteins that are associated with
40:08
amalloid beta amalloid dosis. So there's a a really there's papers on Alzheimer's
40:15
focusing on this particular sequence in amaloid beta which is the protein that's
40:20
misfold in association with Alzheimer's that has gxxgxxg
40:25
sequence and those glycines have been singled out as being critically involved
40:31
in the misfolding process. So if you replace those glycines with the glycines are critical to form an alpha helix
40:38
which is the form it wants to have to be healthy when you kill those gly glycines
40:43
by replacing them with glyphosate the alpha helix falls apart it turns into a beta sheet and that's the misfolded form
40:49
of amaloid beta so and of course alzheimer's is going up dramatically exactly in step with glyphosate usage I
40:56
think it's quite possible that misfolded amaloid beta due to glyphosate substitution is a major factor in that
41:03
whole process. It's obvious that we want to minimize or avoid glyphosate best we can. But since
41:11
we're focusing so much on glycine, my brain goes to can we increase glycine
41:17
through supplementation or the diet to try and provide that substrate
41:24
when proteins are made. I think that's true. And in fact, I have um I know a lot of naturopaths who have
41:30
told me that they find glycine has been beneficial as a supplement for their patients and they recommend it. And it
41:37
makes a lot of sense because if you sort of want to overwhelm the glyosate with so much glycine that it's the the
41:43
machinery is less likely to pick up a glyphosate by mistake if there's plenty of glycine lying around. And I think that's well motivated. I think that's
41:49
probably a very good idea. I definitely support bone broth as a as a food, a
41:55
really healthy, nutrit nutritious food. Bone broth made from, of course, grass-fed beef, you know, uh you don't
42:01
want um there's a lot of glyphosate uh in the cows because they get a huge amount of glyphosate in their feed. So,
42:07
that's also a problem. Uh certainly eating certified organic to me is the number one most important thing you can
42:13
do um to to reduce your glyphosate exposure, not completely eliminate it because it's still found in many samples
42:20
of organic food even though they're not allowed to use it. Talk more about the animal piece. Once
Does Glyphosate End Up in Meat and Animal Products?
42:27
an animal has eaten glyphosate through feed or through just naturally grazing,
42:34
how does their metabolism change it, if at all? And then when we eat that meat,
42:40
how different is that from us eating plants that are sprayed with it? I know that's an excellent question and
42:46
I would love to know the answer because I would think that if you're eating mostly animal-based foods, you're getting less glyphosate just because the
42:52
glyphosate is applied to the plant. So the plant's more likely to have it. Um but it does go into the meat and in fact
42:58
um there was a study on deformed piglets. um the piglets were born deformed and
43:04
they couldn't survive and they took samples from their tissues and measured and looked for glyphosate in the in the
43:10
samples. There's a big question as to whether it accumulates in the tissues. Monsanto has said, "Oh, don't worry. It just goes passes out through the urine,
43:17
through the feces. It doesn't stick around and I think they're wrong." And this particular paper on these deformed
43:23
piglets showed that they had glyphosate contamination in several different tissue samples. I think that they were highest in the lungs, which is
43:29
interesting. Unfortunately, we don't eat the lungs. So, that's good, right? But and but the but the meat the muscle also
43:38
had glyosate and of course liver. So, they they uh they found it in several different uh samples from those piglets.
43:44
So, it does go throughout your body uh slowly accumulates. That's why it's a slow kill. It takes quite a long time
43:50
for you to start to notice that there's a serious problem. A couple things that come to mind as you're talking there. One is that we've
43:57
talked about our microbiome being impacted by glyphosate. When it comes to an animal like a cow, a ruminant,
44:06
they have a way more complex microbiome for breaking down plants.
44:11
So, have we looked at different animals and they're different microbiomes and
44:16
how they're impacted? Because if they're not breaking down, say grass because their microbiome is impacted, is that
44:24
affecting the health of the animal and the quality of the food if we're eating that? Yeah, definitely. And in fact, I can
44:31
talk about two things and I'll first start talk about methane and then remind me that I have something else to talk about because I can lose track. um you
44:38
know cows are being blamed for releasing all kinds of methane and we've got the greenhouse gases and there's all this concern about we should kill all the
44:44
cows and maybe grow some grow fake meat you know all this stuff which I find horrifying um to to grow meat in the
44:51
laboratory and to forget about the cows um but the methane I believe the cows
44:56
are releasing a lot more methane as a consequence of dispiosis due to the glyphosate and that's extremely
45:03
interesting because um that's led me to a whole huge uh study that I've done on methane in particular because methane is
45:09
extremely interesting. Uh and and of course the cows have a really fancy gut there. They're far more sophisticated
45:15
than we are with the microbes. Um being the ruminance that's a very unique um
45:20
and very powerful gut that can for example break down grass. We can't eat grass but the cows can because the
45:26
microbes are so special. Um but the uh microbes go through a whole uh cycle.
45:31
They they have a whole process of what I call hydrogen hydrogen cycling. they produce hydrogen gas and then they use
45:37
that hydrogen gas to reduce carbon dioxide and they can make uh organic ma uh molecules. It's basically like
45:44
photosynthesis in a way. They use the hydrogen gas to to take carbon dioxide out of the air and make uh organic
45:51
molecules. They can make all the short- chain fatty acids are made that way. acetate, propionate and butyrate and
45:58
also methane. Of course they make they use the um carbon dioxide in the hydrogen to make methane and then that
46:05
methane gas can be released and cause trouble or it can also be further metabolized into methanol and then
46:12
formaldahhide and then formate and then it comes back around again and makes more hydrogen gas. There's a whole cycle but the formate can actually be used as
46:19
a source of methyl groups for the whole methylation pathways which are super important in the body. So the methane is
46:25
actually a very important nutrient if you can turn it into those other things and eventually turn it into methyl
46:31
groups and then supply the body with methyl groups. You know methylation pathways is one of the parts that one of the disturbances in autism actually um
46:39
is methylation pathways not working properly. But the methylation pathways can be sourced are sourced from the
46:45
methane that's produced from the hydrogen gas um in the gut for example
46:50
with the cows. And the problem is glyphosate majorly suppresses a whole class of enzymes called dehydrogenasis.
46:58
And uh and I I found that a paper on E.coli where they had a dozen different dehydrogenases that were suppressed by
47:04
glyphosate. And there was a another paper on soil bacteria, the bacteria that grow along the roots of the plant.
47:13
And they they they com they exposed them to glyphosate in at one point in time and then they actually looked
47:19
collectively at all the dehydrogenases as a group all the dehydrogenasis and plotted over time their activity level
47:26
and the activity of the dehydrogenas kept going down for 3 weeks after that exposure so that it's pretty clear to me
47:32
that and I predict it would suppress dehydrogenas because they have a beautiful glyphosate susceptibility
47:39
motif with the gxxg motif. at a site where they're buying phosphate. So they are perfect examples
47:46
of of a glyphosate susceptibility all the dehydrogenases and the dehydrogenases are essential for
47:53
converting the methane gas into formate and into methyl groups. So when that
47:59
whole pathway gets blocked the methane piles up and then of course you have the greenhouse gases being released and you
48:05
have the problem with the cows. So if you fed the cows organically, they wouldn't be releasing so much methane
48:11
and they would be a much better bet for um you know to not be a problem with
48:16
climate change. Interesting. Because of that. Yeah. So I think that's very significant. And then the other thing is the cows. There were cows that
48:22
were sick. There was a study published by some Europeans and they were sick
48:27
cows and they checked their glyphosate in their urine was skyhigh and then they treated them. And so what they used to
48:33
treat them is really interesting. And I've been telling people humans should do the same thing, you know. So they
48:38
gave them sauerkraut juice, which is very interesting. And then they gave them um bentonite clay and fulvic acid
48:45
and humic acid, which is these complex organic molecules from the soil. And they they gave them those things and
48:51
then they found that their glyphosate level went down and their health improved. So, that was really exciting
48:56
to me because that's kind of the best paper I've seen to suggest what people might do to try to uh if they've got
49:02
symptoms that they suspect are being caused by glyphosate to do the same thing really. And I am a big fan of
49:08
sauerkraut, also apple cider vinegar. I think it's possible that the microbes in those um fermented foods are able to
49:16
break down glyphosate enzyatically. And if that's true, I think that's really super because you could even get it
49:22
broken down in your mouth before it even gets into your gut. If you've got the uh the the microbes in your mouth that can
49:29
break it down, you can turn glyphosate into useful energy because it's got both a phosphorus and a nitrogen. It's
49:34
actually a very good fertilizer if you can break it down, but it's hard to break it down and most animals, many
49:40
most of the microbes can't break it down. You know, it's it's tricky with that uh carbon phosphorus bond that that
49:46
really stumps most of the organisms and our cells can't break it down. Okay, to go over that list again,
49:52
fermented foods, humic acid, fulvic acid, I think there was one more
49:57
bentonite clay. Bentonite clay. Bentonite clay as a binder. Yeah, you mentioned early in the conversation
50:03
the fact that for residential Yes. Roundup now doesn't contain glyphosate.
50:08
So expand into that and how we won that one even though in the big scheme of things a small win but still in the
50:14
right direction. Yes. Um yeah I'm actually hopeful that um glyphosate will completely become
50:22
unmarketable because of lawsuits. And I think that's really been a big uh gamecher in the United States. And I I
50:28
remember the moment when I heard that Dwayne Lee Johnson won his case. Did you follow that at all? The Dwayne Lee
50:34
Johnson case. No. In California. He was a um he his he was a school grounds keeper and he exclusive he exclusively
50:42
used glyphosate to control the weeds on on the school grounds and um so that was
50:47
his job and glyphosate was the only chemical he was exposed to so it was very clear and he developed non
50:52
non-hosin lymphoma I think in his early 40s he had young kids it was really sad to see you know he had this non-hos
50:59
non-hashid lymphoma and he reached out to the company to see you know could this be because of the glypha they they
51:05
they kind brushed him off. They didn't really help him at all. And he so he decided to sue and and he got some
51:11
really hot lawyers to uh help him with his lawsuit. And um and I remember
51:16
I I remember reading about the lawsuit and thinking, well, that's not going to work. They've got these super powerful lawyers. They always, you know, they
51:21
always manage to weasel their way out of these problems. But I was so shocked and and pleased, you know, pleasantly
51:27
surprised when I heard that he actually won a jury trial, awarded him something like ridiculous amount of money, like
51:33
$380 million. It got cut way back of course by through through through later process with the judge and everything.
51:40
It got cut back to a much more modest number. But that was the first breakthrough case that then opened up a
51:47
complete field day for for the all the people who had non-host lymphoma and thought glyph caused it. all these
51:53
lawsuits started showing up and there were like three or four other ones since then that also won with a jury trial,
51:59
big big awards and um and so Monsanto and Monsanto got sold to Bayer right
52:05
before all this happened. And I think Monsanto was really on top of h of having really good lawyers to keep these
52:11
things from getting through. Uh and Bayer probably wasn't so aware they needed to be so, you know, careful about
52:17
these lawsuits because once that door opened, it was just incredible. And now there's like 100,000 people waiting in
52:23
the wings for their day in court to um to claim that glyphosate caused their non-hodkins lymphoma. And so um so Bayer
52:32
has been really struggling with this. They've been trying very hard now to get legislation through at individual
52:38
states. Many of the states are being uh they're pushing leg legislation on these
52:44
states, bills to be uh considered that would basically treat glyphosate like
52:49
vaccines to say this stuff is so important for our agriculture that we can't afford to do without it. These
52:54
lawsuits are going to bring us down. We won't be able to make it anymore if we have so many lawsuits we can't afford to make it. Uh we need to protect
53:02
glyphosate. So, we need to set up laws that say you can't sue no matter how bad
53:08
your health is because of what you think glyphosate caused that problem. You can't sue uh because glyphosate is
53:14
sacred. You know, it's so important to our agriculture that we can't afford to lose it. Those are the kinds of of bills
53:20
that they're setting up and they've got something in a I think even in the I don't know if it's in the big beautiful
53:25
bill, but it's at the at the federal level as well. They're working really hard to get laws passed. um that will
53:32
protect glyphosate. And that's just really scary. And at the same time, they're threatening to completely close
53:39
shop on glyphosate if they can't get these laws passed. And I'm hoping that they can't get them passed and they end
53:44
up forgetting about glyphosate and just not making it anymore, which is what we really need. Of course, then what's
53:50
going to happen is we'll bring back all these other herbicides which are supposed to be much more toxic than glyphosate. So, it's not really going to
53:57
be a solution if we have to resort to gluosinate or dicama 24D. They're all bad. We have to, in my opinion, we have
54:04
to get rid of herbicides. We have, we cannot use uh synthetic herbicides in agriculture. We might be able to come up
54:10
with some formulations like, you know, vinegar and soap type of thing, salt um
54:16
that aren't as destructive. Or I'm really hoping for uh um technology, a
54:22
technological solution. They have these fancy tractors they're building now that run on solar energy that have vision.
54:28
They're smart. They've got computer on board. You know, they can recognize a weed by its looks. They can carry maybe
54:35
some boiling water and spray the weed with boiling water and kill it. I had this ideal notion that you could figure
54:42
out if you put your mind to it, you could figure out a way to control the weeds without having to bring in a bunch
54:47
of humans to pull it. That's that's the whole thing. Human labor to pull weeds is very expensive and nobody wants to do
54:53
it as well. So that's, you know, that's the big problem. I think if we could find a way around that that didn't
54:58
involve toxic chemicals, we would be so much better off. As you shared that story of the
55:04
groundskeeper in the lawsuit, it started to come back to me. Was that written about in your book?
55:09
Yes. Yes. Mhm. That's what it is. It'll be interesting too now with as you talk about using
55:16
boiling water to kill a weed and this tractor innovation with AI.
55:22
Yes. in this whole layer that's propelling things in technology so
55:27
quickly right now that's amazing how that could fit into all this I think so I think AI has really uh it
55:34
has achieved way beyond my expectation I was in the thick of it through much of my career I was involved with developing
55:40
I wrote a lot of computer code to to train computers to communicate with people using natural language that was
55:46
basically my career before I got into this stuff you know for most of many decades Actually we were pioneers in
55:53
that space and at the time I thought this is never going to be practical. This is like so hopelessly hard you know
55:58
and so I was really amazed at how quickly uh that whole technology just became commoditized. It was amazing to
56:06
see and very gratifying for me. Although of course I hate those telephone when
56:11
you call up the company and you get the AI robot asking you questions. I always want to throw the phone across the room.
56:17
Good and bad like all things. I I feel bad that I'm the one who one of the ones who contributed to that technology.
56:24
So, when we were talking about methane in the cows, you wanted me to make a note that you had another tangent you
56:31
wanted to go into. I'm not sure if you covered that already. That was the that um that was the um uh
56:37
the cows that were sick and then they fed them the um the sauerkraut juice. Got it. So, we covered that.
56:43
That Yeah, thank you for reminding Coming back to animal protein, one other
56:48
area I want to dig into. We talked about the incorporation for
56:53
glycine of the glyphosphate or glyphosate. Can it be said both ways?
56:59
Well, glyphosate is the correct pronunciation, but it's it's a hard word to pronounce. I feel like I've heard it pronounced a
57:05
lot of different ways. Glyophate is one that people tend to say. Glyophate, you know, swapping the
57:11
SNF. Now, I'm not going to be able to say it correctly. glyphosate and glyphosphate and glyophate. There's a lot of
57:18
different variants, but glyphosate is the correct pronunciation, I'm pretty sure. So, glyphosate getting swapped in for
57:25
glycine in animal protein and then us ingesting those proteins.
57:31
Oh, I know. Yeah. Talk about how you think about that. Yeah. Well, that's really I mean that's
57:36
very scary, especially if they're amaloids, you know, because you know about the mad cow disease, right? and
57:43
eating the um eating the the I guess the I guess it was the brains. I think the cows ate the brains of the cows or
57:49
something to cause the mad cow. It was um people worried about hamburger causing mad cow because or you know
57:55
anything sourced from cows with mad cow um getting humans sick with this uh with
58:01
this CJD kutzfelt yakub disease and so um and that's showing up in deer too.
58:07
There's a strange problem with the deer that has to do with misfolded protein. their deer have a fantastic sequence in
58:14
there. So there's this protein called um let's see the the pron protein right the
58:19
pron protein is really a cool protein but it's the one that's associated with critical disease which is sort of human
58:26
mad cow right so that whole space of that really strange disease that causes horrible brain problems um the cows have
58:33
something like that and the cows I mean the deer the reindeer and they have a
58:38
version of that um of that pron protein so different animals have different versions of the pron protein But the
58:44
deer have one that just has this huge long sequence of gxx gxx gxx. It goes on
58:50
for gosh like 20 u 20 of those um units
58:55
I think a really a huge number. Uh our pron protein also has a long sequence of that but it's not as long as the one in
59:02
the deer. And so um I am suspecting that glyphosate getting into those proteins
59:09
in in place of glycine at one of those sequences of gxxg is causing um that protein to misfold
59:16
and then if you eat the meat that has the misfolded protein in it that can trigger because those they they grow you
59:22
know they're like crystals that can then make more. So when you have when you're exposed to one misfolded protein, um it
59:29
can it can trigger your own body to make more that modeled after it. It's such a it's a very strange disease. It's so
59:36
fascinating in terms of the bioysics of it. Um it it really fascinates me. But I think it's possible that glyphosate is
59:44
causal in mad cow and also in um in the deer problem and then also in CJD in
59:50
humans due to this phenomenon that it can cause that protein to misfold by getting into the protein in place of
59:57
those glycines. Up until this point we've been focused on glyphosate and the negative impact
GMOs: Is the Risk Only the Spraying... or Something More?
1:00:04
of that on the body and on the microbiome.
1:00:09
What about the GMO aspect? The GMO, the fact that we're taking
1:00:15
genetics from bacteria and we're putting those within the
1:00:21
crops. So, glyphosate aside, do you see that as being a problem in
1:00:26
and of itself? Yeah, it's interesting because I think there were people who were uh concerned about the GMOs long
1:00:32
ago before they were aware of any problems with glyphosate uh because of the actual GMO technology to actually
1:00:38
have that foreign protein in that plant or even the process that puts that foreign protein into the plant. What
1:00:44
else does it do to the genome and how can that affect us? And I think there are still open questions on all of that.
1:00:51
Um you know the GMO that there's a GMO that's that produces an insecticide. It
1:00:57
gives a it gives the animals I mean the plants a a gene from an from a microbe
1:01:04
um that produces a an insecticide with that with that protein. And so that means that the plant produces that same
1:01:11
pesticide, you know, produces this toxic um pesticide using the gene that it
1:01:18
borrowed from the from the um micro. So, I mean, they they're amazing with their
1:01:23
with their ability to create these monster designs that are uh way outside
1:01:28
of nature, you know. And then you have the crisper technology as well that's rolling out. They're trying to claim
1:01:34
crisper is not GMO. They're trying to get it get the government to decide that crisper doesn't need to be labeled as a
1:01:39
GMO uh technology. And crisper is supposed to be very crisp, you know, and
1:01:44
very perfect and but it's not true because it's all kinds of other things that happen unexpected. And they're
1:01:50
finding that out in research that they're doing that it it not only does the specific it's supposed to be able to
1:01:55
do a specific gene editing. It's quite remarkable what crisper can do. And they have a lot of hope for crisper even to
1:02:01
correct human uh errors. you know, if you have a if you have a a genetic defect that's causing a really serious
1:02:07
problem, in theory, you could use crisper to fix that in a in an embryo,
1:02:12
for example. I mean, it's just pretty amazing some of the things that you might think of doing. But the crisper is
1:02:18
not precise, and it turns out it causes all kinds of other genetic changes in
1:02:23
random ways that is completely unpredictable as far as what the consequences might be. the GMOs. It's
1:02:29
interesting because they studied I was shocked to find this out when they rolled out the GMO technology. They did
1:02:35
experiments to see if those plants were safe. They grew the GMO plants that for example with the glyphosate resistance
1:02:42
and they grew them organically. They didn't put any any glyphosate on them. And then they tested to see if they were
1:02:48
safe to eat. So they left out a really important part of the GMO, which was the fact that it you could use the
1:02:53
glyphosate. The glyphosate was going to show up in the product. They just left the glyphosate part out when they did
1:02:58
the study. So they do a lot of cheating, I think, when and when when they studied glyphosate to get it to be approved,
1:03:05
they left out all the other stuff that's in Roundup because you have a lot of different adivants and surfactants that
1:03:10
are added to the uh product to make the glyphosate more toxic, better able to be taken up by the plant cells. Also, those
1:03:18
things are also independently toxic. So there have been people who've written articles that claim that the other stuff
1:03:24
in Roundup is more toxic than the glyphosate. Not to mention the interaction of all of it together.
1:03:29
Exactly. They it creates it makes the glyphosate more toxic and it's also toxic in and of itself. And so um so
1:03:36
that's a whole other issues that they only when they studied glyphosate exposure in animal studies or in um or
1:03:44
in in cultures, they didn't put those other things in there. They just used the pure glyphosate. Hypothetical
1:03:49
situation. A farmer reads your book, decides to ditch glyphosate.
1:03:56
How long does it take for the soil and the field to get back
1:04:01
to baseline? And then do we have technologies that are natural we can use
1:04:07
to speed that up, right? You know, those are excellent questions and I and I know there are people who are working in that space and
1:04:12
I think it's a very important area that needs more research right now because we're going to have a I think if we
1:04:17
finally realize glyphosate is not good, we're going to have a lot of people eager to get it out of their soil. Glyphosate is interesting because it
1:04:24
they claim it it it gets metabolized in a couple of weeks in a normal environment like in the soil, but it's
1:04:30
not true. And certainly there are some soils where it survives for a very long time. And um there was a study for
1:04:36
example in Brazil, I wrote about that in my book where they were looking at glyphosate levels in the soil year by
1:04:42
year in a where the crop was a GMO roundup ready crop and they found that every year there was more glyphosate in
1:04:49
the soil. So it was accumulating over time. It was not going away from the previous year and uh so it's a I think
1:04:56
there's many many soils that are stuck with a lot of glyphosate and you need to have um microbes that can break it down.
1:05:03
Sunlight can break it down. And certainly it's the case that you're in limbo. If you've got a farm where you've been using glyphosate for years and you
1:05:10
decide, "No, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to make it an organic farm." You have to go through a process that can take quite a long time because
1:05:15
they'll they'll test your soil to see if it's okay. And if it's not, you've got to wait another year. So meanwhile, you're growing your crop organically.
1:05:22
You're not using glyphosate, but you can't sell it as an organic crop because you can't get certified. So that's a
1:05:27
really nasty limbo period. I would love to see the government uh actually do some uh subsidies anybody who has a farm
1:05:35
that is using glyphosate to say you know turn your farm into an organic farm and
1:05:40
during that period when um when you can't sell it as an organic crop we will subsidize you with the difference to
1:05:47
help you uh survive through that period then you can finally have an organic
1:05:52
crop to sell if the government would support that I think it would be fantastic to help the farmers get over that hump because there's that hurdle
1:05:59
If you've got soil that's toxic because of glyphosate and you want to be organic, you can't just turn key and
1:06:05
make it happen tomorrow. You can only imagine these poor farmers that have been spraying this for years
1:06:11
and been part of multi-generational farms. I know this is relatively new,
1:06:17
but even if it's 25, 30 years, the exposure in their body and what
1:06:23
that's doing. Yeah. Do we have a lot of research looking at that? Well, you know, there was a movie
1:06:28
that I watched uh on tobacco farms in um I think it was in Brazil uh and and
1:06:35
there were children involved in this. It was a very sad movie because it was talking about these farmers who brew tobacco. Uh and I think it was Reynolds
1:06:42
that was a they would sell it to Reynolds. They had a a relationship with them that that's how they would sell
1:06:48
their tobacco. And they required, Reynolds required that they have GMO Roundup ready tobacco and that they have
1:06:55
to use glyphosate on the crop. And uh and then the kids, there were these children that were very sick, really
1:07:00
genetically um damaged um with with with really horrible um diseases that were um
1:07:09
that these people, you know, the kids of these people were not healthy and um and they understood that it was probably
1:07:15
because of the glyphosate, but they couldn't not use the glyphosate because Reynolds wouldn't buy the product if they didn't, which was just really sad.
1:07:22
And this gets me thinking about when these kids have kids of their own. Yeah.
1:07:28
How can this or can it translate between a parent and a new child?
1:07:34
Excellent question. And that's something that's been looked into in recent papers. And it's really really shocking
1:07:39
because there's actually a study uh on rats and they exposed the uh
1:07:46
pregnant rat to lowdose glyphosate and and the pregnant rat was fine and then
1:07:51
they had the offspring. The offspring grew up. They had they had their you know they went down to pups and
1:07:57
grandpups I think great-grandps you know through generations of these rats and they found that the exposure was just
1:08:04
that pregnant great great grandmother right but every generation got sicker with with various problems that are um
1:08:12
that they suspected were due to epigenetics. And so it was really fascinating that actually the the germ
1:08:17
cells are very very sensitive to toxic exposures during pregnancy. That's why you have to be really really super
1:08:23
healthy when you're pregnant. Uh and so the germ cells actually uh reacted to
1:08:29
those toxic exposures by changing the methylation patterns to code for that to
1:08:35
say I got exposed to this awful toxin in uterero and then the the offspring
1:08:41
remember that in their in their epigenetic. It's really amazing biology that the epigenetics dictates certain
1:08:47
policies that end up giving them diseases and things like obesity, you know, and and um I forget what the
1:08:55
reproductive issues for sure. Um and maybe that's because it's kind of like
1:09:00
if you think about it, I always think everything in biology has a purpose. And if you've got a germ line inside a
1:09:07
pregnant uh mo mother that's being exposed to some toxin, the one thing you
1:09:13
could communicate to the germs is you better not have kids because this is bad. You know, this is going to cause
1:09:18
you trouble and it's going to cause your your future generations trouble, maybe it's better if you don't, you know, and
1:09:24
so it could actually end up suppressing your ability to have kids and end up with infertility issues. And certainly
1:09:30
we have a huge problem with infertility, huge and growing problem with infertility here in this country.
1:09:36
And all this plus the food and the farms we're passing on to future generations
1:09:43
ties into your book name toxic legacy, right? What are we leaving to the kids? And
1:09:49
what are we doing to the kids that are being born into this this world with this current situation?
1:09:55
I know it's it terrifies me actually. I I actually fear that we might actually do ourselves in like I think if we keep
1:10:02
on many of the the modern countries the um industrialized countries have a
1:10:08
reproductive rate right now that's below two and if that's the case and that gets sustained we will disappear because if
1:10:15
you don't replace yourselves humans will shrink in number until finally we'll just disappear and I think it's a real
1:10:21
possibility it's a sobering thought but if we can't uh if we can't produce the
1:10:26
future generations that can actually grow up and be healthy and have kids of their own. The species is in trouble as
1:10:33
a species. I think so. We've dropped some different ideas.
Practical Ways to Reduce Your Glyphosate Exposure
1:10:39
Going organic, being mindful of eating clean animals,
1:10:44
the fulvic acid, humic acid, fermented foods. But let's zoom back. Given
1:10:51
everything we've shared today about the current landscape of glyphosate,
1:10:56
what's the playbook moving forward? Somebody like yourself in the know, what
1:11:01
are you doing day in day out to protect yourself from this? Yeah. And there's some other things that
1:11:08
I believe in. And one of them that we haven't mentioned yet is sunlight. I think sunlight exposure is extremely
1:11:13
healthy. I'm a big fan of sunlight and I think it's um and of course sulfur is
1:11:18
something I talked a lot about in my book and we didn't really bring it up here but sulfur is a big deal. Uh sulfur
1:11:24
doesn't have a minimum daily requirement. There's a the government thinks there's plenty of it but the
1:11:29
problem is that uh glyphosate is a train wreck for the whole process that makes the sulfate and that's a pretty big part
1:11:36
of my book where I talk about sulfate and that those are enzymes that are have that glyphosate susceptibility motif. Many of them involved in sulfate
1:11:43
processing have that motif and so they're going to be sensitive to glyphosate and sulfate deficiency is a
1:11:50
key feature of of autism both in the gut. There's an enzyme in the gut that makes the sulfated phenols. It's this
1:11:56
disrupted uh sulfate in the brain. Hepin sulfate synthesis is disrupted and the
1:12:02
autistic brains have low levels of hepin sulfate in the brain ventricles which is crucial for the development of the
1:12:07
brain. So that's really critical I think sulfate and then systemic sulfate deficiency like lining all the blood
1:12:12
vessels. You have these sulfated glycosaminoglycans and the sulomucans in the gut. These
1:12:18
things are all super important for the for the health of the circulation and the health of the gut and and the
1:12:24
glyphosate disrupts the enzymes that that make the sulfate out of sulfur sources. So uh a lot of people have
1:12:32
sulfur sensitivity. They they can't eat sulfur containing foods. I think that's a consequence of glyphosate exposure
1:12:37
because glyphosate is disrupting the enzymes that for example convert sulfide to sulfate or reduce sulfide to make
1:12:44
methionine. Both of those pathways are disrupted by glyphosate. And so a
1:12:49
sulfite is very toxic and so then you can't eat, for example, wines that have sulfide. You can't drink those. And and
1:12:55
there are many people that have sulfur sensitivities. They try to avoid sulfur containing foods and they get sulfur
1:13:00
deficiencies systemically. And that's really bad because those sulfates are so important in your body both for the
1:13:06
development of the brain for the circulation the blood lining the blood there's all these sulfates that are
1:13:12
bound to the um the ep epithelial cells the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels so um sulfate deficiency so that
1:13:20
means eating a lot of sulfur containing foods and I'm a really big fan of onions and garlic we use those all the time in
1:13:25
our cooking and of course uh sulfur containing uh meats are really good sources of cyine for example
1:13:32
and methionine. You know, these are sulfur containing amino acids and uh so
1:13:37
eating a lot of um seafood, seafood is a super healthy choice because it has lots of minerals. It's really a you're
1:13:43
looking for nutrient-dense foods when you eat. You don't want to have just empty empty carbs, you know, like sugar.
1:13:50
It just sugar is a fine fuel. uh but it's uh but it has doesn't have enough of those um it doesn't have any of those
1:13:57
you know minerals and vitamins and and all the polyphenols and stuff that are in the in the vegetables. So just eating
1:14:02
a rich diet of whole foods, uh green vegetables and cruciferous vegetables are fantastic and I eat a lot of those
1:14:08
as well. And that's the cabbage for example, sauerkraut's a great food because it's got both the fermented foods and the sulfur in the um in the
1:14:16
cabbage. And so fermented foods and cabbage and then Brussels sprouts, uh
1:14:22
cauliflower, u broccoli, those are all cruciferous vegetables which have a lot of sulfur.
1:14:28
So, um, my diet, I guess you would probably call it paleo. I think I I eat meat and mostly meat and vegetables,
1:14:35
some fruits. Um, not too many carbs. I'm happy to have potatoes and and rice here and there,
1:14:41
but I don't I go low on the carbs, I guess, is what I would say. And everything's whole foods. And of course,
1:14:47
everything's organic. 100% organic. Given the fact sulfate is so important to your diet, you actually call it the
1:14:53
miracle worker in your book. Do you think supplementation of sulfate
1:14:59
is something we should consider? I do and in fact I think um there's a methyl sophonylmethane MSM and then
1:15:06
there's this very controversial dimethyl suloxide. Have you heard of that? DMSO. That's a really Yes.
1:15:13
Do you have an opinion on it? Not really. It's not something I've really played around with. Yeah. I'm I'm playing around with it
1:15:19
right now and I'm I'm not sure, you know, I don't I don't actually like supplements. I don't take any uh pills,
1:15:24
you know, for example. I don't take any um uh prescription drugs and I don't take any pills, but I do soak in Epsom
1:15:30
salt baths pretty much every night and just a handful. I don't do a a large dose, you know, just a little bit in in
1:15:36
the bath water, uh Epsom salts because that's going to be sulfur. That's magnesium sulfate. Then magnesium is
1:15:42
also an issue. I we have a lot of problems with magnesium deficiency. So, you can get both the magnesium and sulfate from the Epsom salt bath, which
1:15:49
I really like. And I I'm almost afraid to say this because only just recently I've been playing around with DMSO. Uh
1:15:56
and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I just bought a book on it and I'm reading about it and I'm fascinated with it
1:16:01
because DMSO dimethyl oxide it's a really really interesting molecule and
1:16:06
it attracts me because it has two methals and it has a sulfur right so methylation pathways sulfation pathways
1:16:13
and both of those are disrupted by glyphosate. So, it feels to me like it's a miracle worker in theoretically DMSO.
1:16:21
Um, and I've just been trying applying it topically and so far so good. I feel like I've been sleeping. It's only been
1:16:26
the last week, so this is brand new. I haven't talked about it before. So, this is a new thing in this particular
1:16:33
podcast interview, but um uh so far I feel quite positive about it and it makes sense to me. And the other thing
1:16:39
that's great about it is that it's natural. It's not synthetic. I was really pleased to know that they they get it from trees. So, because if it
1:16:46
were synthetic, it wouldn't be um there's differences between the synthetic and the natural that I care about.
1:16:52
How do you feel about saunis as a modality to detox
1:16:57
and then any specific value there getting glyphosate out of the body? And the reason I ask it that way and I'm
1:17:04
puzzled on if it would really do anything is because glyphosate becomes part of our proteins. So, is there
1:17:11
really a period of time that we have a chance at getting it out of the body
1:17:17
before it just becomes part of us? Yeah, I know. That's a big issue, isn't it? Is far as whether it's available to
1:17:24
get rid of. When it gets stuck into the proteins, it's very hard to get rid of it because you have to break down those proteins first and then release that
1:17:30
glyphosate into circulation and then to push it out through the skin when you uh I think the um saunas are probably a
1:17:37
good way to uh to detox. I would think to push out even toxic metals for example or any kind of toxic u you would
1:17:46
make sense to me that your body would want to sweat them out you know to to push those uh toxins out through the
1:17:52
skin. It would be a great way to um to eliminate toxic exposures in general. Now whether glyosate is part of that mix
1:18:00
or not I'm not sure but it would make sense. I mean you pee it out. So they do find it in your urine
1:18:07
quite routinely. Actually many people are contaminated with glyphosate in the urine. So it's being pushed out through
1:18:12
the urine. So probably it would be pushed out through the skin as well. If you sweat, I would think so.
1:18:18
Any value in getting tested to see your current glyphosate levels? You can do that. Um yeah. The question
1:18:26
is how you interpret it. it basically if you get urine glyphosate test it's looking at mostly what your exposure
1:18:33
over the last couple of weeks. Um so it's it's not gonna you'd have to sort of do it multiple times to get a sense
1:18:38
of how much variance there is in that exposure. Um certainly uh you'd be very
1:18:45
happy to find that you didn't have any. That would be terrific. And so it's something you can do
1:18:50
which ties back to and if it's skyhigh you start to worry about where is it coming from right because you could be eating organic and
1:18:56
then it's skyh high and it's like wait a minute how come you know am I breathing it in from the air because it is in the
1:19:01
air. I actually collected some rain water in Cambridge at my lab at MIT and
1:19:07
I sent it off to Anthony Samuel and he tested it and found glyphosate in it in the rainwater. So it it it's in the
1:19:13
vein, you know, which is scary. What you said there about a couple weeks
1:19:19
that was getting out what I was referring to with the sauna. The fact that since it is becoming part of us in
1:19:24
our proteins, there is a limited window there where we can really see
1:19:30
its impact before we absorb it and make it part of us. Yeah, there's a certain percentage and I
1:19:37
think it's a small percent usually that gets incorporated into your proteins and the rest of it gets eliminated through
1:19:43
feces or through urine or through sweating, you know, various ways to get it out. Um, but that small percentage
1:19:50
accumulates. That's the dangerous part. Okay, so glad we clarified. I didn't realize there's only a small part that
1:19:56
got incorporated. But it accumulates over time and that's the really dangerous thing because you you get more and more as you live longer
1:20:02
and so then you start to get disease when you've lived long enough to accumulate enough glyphosate to be
1:20:08
problematic. Okay. So glyphosates in the food in the rainwater.
1:20:14
What about just inhalation in the air? I suspect waterways, other areas that we want to
1:20:21
be cognizant of protecting our bodies. I want to go back to DMSO because that's
1:20:27
another thing very interesting about it. Um, and this there's a um a gas called
1:20:32
dimethyl sulfide. So, it's very similar to dimethyl sulfoxide, right? It's it just has the hydrogen's and no oxygen.
1:20:39
Dimethyl sulfide. The methyl are two of those methyl groups which are in the methylation pathways, right? But the
1:20:44
dimethyl sulfide is produced by an organism that lives in shallow seas. And this is really I was so fascinated when
1:20:51
I read about this. And that organism um is crucial. It releases that gas which
1:20:57
goes up into the air and seeds clouds. So it helps to make rain form over the
1:21:02
ocean and um that organism uh is very sensitive to glyphosate. I found an
1:21:07
article that showed that it gets killed by glyphosate. So you think of the med Mississippi River and all that
1:21:13
glyphosate coming down from all those crops and pouring out into the Gulf from the about mouth of the Mississippi River
1:21:20
killing off those guys who make the dimethyl sulfide which then prevents the clouds from forming which then makes the
1:21:27
the the oceans hotter because there's more sun heats up the oceans and that's what's you know killing the coral. So I
1:21:34
think there could be a connect connection through all of that. The dimethyl sulfide gets oxidized up there
1:21:39
in those clouds and gets converted to guess what? Dimethyl sulfox oxide, right? And then the rain actually dumps
1:21:45
the dimethyl sulfoxide on the on the plants on the land and they love it.
1:21:51
They take it up as a fertilizer to provide them with both the methyl groups and the sulfur. So I think that's a really super interesting cycle at the uh
1:21:59
at the global level u that's getting messed up by glyphosate that's supplying
1:22:05
those uh crop plants with very useful nutrients uh in terms of sulfur and the methyl groups. That's really fascinating
1:22:12
to me. You mentioned quickly there the fact that you're not a big fan of supplements. I know one thing you've
Why Stephanie Is So Excited About Deuterium Research
1:22:18
been experimenting with more so lately is dutarium depleted water which could
1:22:23
fit in under that realm. So how is that going and why are you such a big fan of low
1:22:31
dutarium? Yeah, that's a huge question and that and uh and I'm super excited about
1:22:36
dutarium and that's really been my main focus lately. Uh I'm blown away by it
1:22:42
actually. It's so incredible and there were so many things about metabolism that I was puzzled about. Uh
1:22:48
particularly just kind of like why did the cell have to go through so much trouble. I was reading about all these
1:22:55
different reaction sequences in which you know something's done in the cytoplasm and then the product is has to
1:23:00
get transported inside the mitochondria has to go through two membranes the inner and the outer membrane of the mitochondria to get into the matrix and
1:23:06
then the enzyme has to also go into the mitochondria and then the enzyme reacts and makes the product and the product
1:23:13
has to be taken out and back into the cytoplasm. I'm like why does it have to do it inside the mitochondri? Why can't it just do it in the cytoplasm? That's
1:23:19
so stupid. You know I'm I'm a lazy person. and I don't want to have all that extra effort. I couldn't figure
1:23:24
out, you know, what was going on there. And I was puzzled that nobody seems to be particularly interested in wondering
1:23:30
about that, you know, why does it have to be so complicated? And um and I feel
1:23:36
I now have my answer and it has to do with dutarium because when I look at those things that have that property, I'm always looking for where is this
1:23:42
enzyme expressed and what is the product it's producing? And lots of times when it's inside that that matrix, a
1:23:48
byproduct is water. water and they kind of ignore the water. Oh yeah, okay, water fine. You know, but that water is
1:23:55
going to be dutarium depleted if in fact that enzyme is able to avoid dutarium in
1:24:00
it reaction and if that substrate is already duterium depleted which you can determine if you can trace it back to
1:24:06
those gut microbes. So I think the whole thing that I mentioned about the hydrogen gas and the recycling that is crucial because when they make the
1:24:12
hydrogen gas the gas is 80% down on its dutarium dutarium by the way is heavy
1:24:17
hydrogen. I don't know if people knew that heavy hydrogen is an extra neutron in there. So it it hydrogen is by far
1:24:24
the most common atom on the in the universe. It's it's the littlest one. It's a tiny little thing. Just a a
1:24:30
proton and an electron. A dutium has a proton, electron, and a neutron. Makes it twice as heavy. It's an isotope of hy
1:24:37
hydrogen. The same as carbon 14 is an isotope isotope of carbon, right?
1:24:42
But it's twice as heavy which makes it very very different from from hydrogen in terms of its how it works and it
1:24:48
makes it unable to efficiently do proton tunneling which is a biohysical phenomenon that um is used by certain
1:24:56
enzymes to get rid of the dutarium. So if I have a particular substrate that has a duterium atom where I want to take
1:25:02
I want to take a hydrogen off but the place I want to take it off is a duterium instead. I'm the enzyme that needs to go through
1:25:08
the tunnel. It's like I can't do it. I'm not going to bother with that version. I'm going to go find another molecule
1:25:14
doesn't have that dutarium there. So then my product is pure and free of dutarium. My product is often water. So
1:25:20
you're inside that matrix making dutium depleted water with many of these reactions that have that complicated
1:25:26
process. Their point is to make duterium depleted water inside the mitochondria. I believe and and I'm just amazed that
1:25:33
um so little is known about dutarium and and so few people are researching dutarium. I I want to get it to be a
1:25:40
much more popular topic of research because it's super super important and those those products that the microbes
1:25:47
make in the gut when they go through that hydrogen process they've stripped away lots of dutarium. So the butyrate
1:25:52
is dutarium is low in dutarium and butter is a low dutarium nutrient has a lot of butyrate in it. So um so those
1:26:00
are the reason a reason maybe the most important reason why those short- chain fatty acids are so healthy for the host
1:26:07
is because they are depleted in deterion and that's because they went through that hydro hydrogen cycle. Does that
1:26:13
make sense? It does. Yeah. Talk more about that water you're drinking detium depleted water.
1:26:19
This is deterium depleted water. I drink a a cup every day, but I have only a third of a cup uh of of the expensive
1:26:25
very expensive light water and 2/3 a cup of regular water. So, I make something that is essentially simulated glacier
1:26:32
water because glacier water is low in dutarium and you can buy that on the market. Um it's because dutarium tends
1:26:38
to stay in the more solid state. So, the dutarium stays behind in the ice when the ice melts and then the so the water
1:26:44
that comes off the glacier tends to be low in dutarium. So the goal here is low dutarium.
1:26:51
What are the biggest insults day in day out that are high dutarium on our
1:26:56
bodies? Well, the big problem is dutarium is that it wrecks the mitochondrial ATP ATPAS pumps. That's
1:27:03
really central. It also I think messes up the DNA which is also very important.
1:27:08
Um but the ATPAS pumps is where I have centered because you have mitochondrial dysfunction as a factor in so many of
1:27:15
these chronic diseases that we face today. They you always find mitochondrial dysfunction and this means
1:27:22
the mitochondria are working inefficiently. They're supposed to make ATP, right? And what happens is they are
1:27:28
less able to make ATP. They make it less efficiently and they waste sort of some of the uh energy by making reactive
1:27:36
oxygen. So they re release uh oxygen radicals like um a hydrogen peroxide
1:27:43
super oxide the oxy the oxygen radical all these different um oxygen-based
1:27:50
molecules that are highly reactive O something called O dot I don't even know how to call that one but there's
1:27:56
all these uh so incomplete water molecules if you will that are reactive
1:28:01
and those can cause they can cause DNA damage in the mitochondria because the mitochondria have DNA A you know and
1:28:07
they can cause mutations in the mitochondrial DNA which is a big deal and they can also break the ATPA's pumps
1:28:13
so you have to make more um so you duturium actually get stuck inside the
1:28:18
pumps it's the pumps have lots of protons that are being pushed through the pumps that's proton motive force
1:28:24
which is the force that actually creates the ATP ATP gets converted to ATP a water molecule comes out and that's a
1:28:31
dutaterium depleted water molecule because those protons are deterium depleted so
1:28:36
the uh all the mechanisms are centered on putting low dutarium protons into the intermembrane space of the mitochondria
1:28:43
and then those low dutarium protons come through those ATPA's pumps and whenever there's a dutarium coming through it's a
1:28:49
stutter in the pump it basically gets it blocks it causes like clogged arteries if you will in the pumps you know and
1:28:56
then um and then that causes huge problems the pump just basically kind of stutters and and gets confused and
1:29:02
doesn't work you know and so you kill off the ATPAS pumps with the duterium and so um so the metabolism has become
1:29:10
very obsessed with keeping dutarium out of those pumps and then the various
1:29:15
enzymes that do that including the dehydrogenasis by the way they're very very important including NADH
1:29:20
dehydrogenase which is suppressed by glyphosate and ecoli it's one of those dehydrogenases that was suppressed in
1:29:26
Ecoli that one delivers those low deterren protons to the intermembrane
1:29:31
space that is so crucial NADHD hydrogenase in the mitochondria and so
1:29:37
glyphosate suppresses it. So that is really serious business you know very disruptive. So glyphosate causes
1:29:43
mitochondrial damage and then that leads to all these different diseases that glyphosate causes.
1:29:49
Okay to zoom back in a practical sense here. What does it look like to live a
1:29:56
low dutarium lifestyle? You have your water. You mentioned the butyrate being
1:30:01
made by the microbiome. butter. Yeah. Probiotics. You know, the mitochondria are making
1:30:08
dutarium depleted water, but what does this look like? Again, to zoom back, somebody that wants to be
1:30:14
cognizant of this, what are the big things in life right now that might be
1:30:19
upping dutarium? And then what are some other hacks or ways that we can bring it down?
1:30:25
Well, one thing to know generally speaking is that fats typically contain low dutarium. They're reduced dutarium.
1:30:32
uh proteins in the middle and carbs the highest. So if you eat a diet that's
1:30:38
high in fats and low in carbs, you're getting a a dutarium a low dutarium diet.
1:30:43
Uh so that's a good place to start. Now glyphosate is such a train wreck for everything in the gut that makes all
1:30:49
that beautiful butyrate uh that glyphosate is a disaster for dutarium.
1:30:54
Really a disaster. I feel like it's uh I would say now that glyphosate's effects
1:30:59
on the dutarium homeostasis is its primary mechanism of toxicity and it has
1:31:04
to do of course in part with disrupting the gut microbiome. And how low do we want to get dutarium?
1:31:10
Yeah, obviously the water you're drinking is a hack to bring it down. We want to be cognizant and live a
1:31:17
lifestyle low in dutarium in general, but is there a sweet spot? What's what
1:31:22
is the average person at right now if we know and then where do we want to get that to? Yeah, you don't want it to be too low.
1:31:28
And in fact, dutarium has a purpose. I mean, like it's like the minerals like iron and um copper and zinc, all of
1:31:36
those uh can be toxic, but yet they're crucial for many enzymes. So, there's a
1:31:41
whole lot of um substances in the world that are both toxic and essential, if
1:31:48
that makes sense. you know because you have mechanisms to protect from the toxicity that get derailed by things
1:31:54
like glyphosate and so a dutarium has that same property. The dutarium well it's really interesting what I believe
1:32:00
is that the duterium is being trapped in gelled water that's created by the sulfates that line all the blood vessels
1:32:06
and also that line the gut because you've got the sulof mucans in the gut that are so important for the gut health. They the sulfate creates gelled
1:32:14
water and the gelled water traps dutarium and so Gerald Pollock has shown
1:32:19
that uh gelled water creates a battery. Have you had any interaction with Gerald Pollock?
1:32:24
Yeah, he's actually supposed to be coming up on the show. I love his work. It comes up on the show all the time.
1:32:31
Yeah, he's really he's really cool. I I know him personally and I really enjoy his books. I've I've read several of his
1:32:37
books. Um about two and a half of his books. I've got the new one. which isn't even published yet, which is pretty
1:32:43
fascinating too about the climate and and the protons. So, um the gelled water
1:32:48
pushes the protons out and creates a battery uh at the boundary between the gelled water and the fluid water. And
1:32:54
that's happening all over the blood vessels. So, you have all this gel lining the blood vessels with those sulfates attached to the uh endothelial
1:33:02
cells and then um the gel is trapping the dutarium and pushing out protons that are dutarium depleted. And there's
1:33:09
a simple reason for that because if you have a water molecule that has OD, so a
1:33:14
D replacing one of the hydrogens's and you split it into um O minus and H+
1:33:20
where where's the D going to go? It's going to stay with the O. It's going to be OD minus and H+ because dutaterium
1:33:26
sticks harder to the oxygen than hydrogen does. Hydrogen lets go more easily. So when you ionize that water,
1:33:34
it's H+ that leaves much more likely than D+. And then the H+ goes out, you
1:33:39
know, with this whole battery thing and leaves behind the D+ bound to the oxygen. So I think that the gelled water
1:33:46
is really crucial. And in the gut, you've got all those sulomucans trapping dutarium which leaves behind
1:33:52
water in the lumen that's low in dutarium. And that's important because in that water goes into all the metabolism that eventually produces
1:33:59
those low dutarium nutrients. So the system is really really fascinating. I
1:34:05
I've just be fallen in love with dutarium and its uh mechanisms because it's it's so amazing to me. I feel like
1:34:11
dutarium is a very very important issue in metabolism for all living all life
1:34:17
forms uh have have had to cope with dutarium and they've learned how to take
1:34:22
advantage of it really. It turns out the um the uh seals there's a lovely study
1:34:28
on seals that showed that they had uh twice as much determine as is normal in
1:34:33
their bones. They actually dumped dutarium into their bones and uh and that duterium made their bones really
1:34:38
strong. So dutarium is beneficial in the bones. It's beneficial in that gel that
1:34:44
lines outside the cell, the gel. So you sort of want to keep the dutarium out of the cells and certainly out of the
1:34:49
mitochondria, which are inside the cells. It's okay in the cytoplasm, you know, but you want to have really low
1:34:55
inside the mitochondria. So the whole system knows how to kind of direct the deterium to places where it's useful.
1:35:01
putting it into the bones, probably putting it into the skin, um, and, uh, and keeping it, uh, away from the
1:35:07
mitochondria. And there's just incredible mechanisms in place to do that. Got it. So, it's not all bad. Cuz a lot
1:35:14
of times in conversations like this, it's all about how do we bring it down?
1:35:19
Bring it down. It's all bad. But you're saying it's the right amount in the right spots.
1:35:25
Yes, it's in certain places. And I tell you though, it is probably better to have less because the the the way it was
1:35:31
found actually the Russians were leaders in this whole space. Um the west is pretty clueless. There's very little
1:35:37
going on. There's just a small tiny core of people that we have a little tight group of people who are trying to figure
1:35:43
out dutarium. I love it. But we need more. We really need more people to be attracted to this as a topic uh to to to
1:35:51
study because it you can get a lot of breakthroughs. I think when you look at at metabolism from the standpoint of
1:35:57
duterium um but this originally it was these Russians who lived up way up north in Siberia and u and these researchers
1:36:05
became interested in them because they were living a long life and they were very healthy even over a hundred years old they still had plenty of physical
1:36:12
strength you know they didn't have a lot of diseases they were really healthy and uh and the researchers were very
1:36:17
surprised by that because they didn't have a very good ability to grow crops right they couldn't have a whole lot of
1:36:22
foods they ate a lot um game meat probably, you know, and fish from the um
1:36:29
lakes. Um but their diet was very uh very low on fresh vegetables. So they
1:36:34
didn't really have what would have been considered a healthy diet, but they were super healthy and the and the
1:36:40
researchers finally traced it to their water because they were drinking water from the glacier and the water was low in detarium. So I think that um we would
1:36:47
be better off if we could um eat less deterium than what is just sort of around normally that the processed foods
1:36:54
probably have high dutarium you know I'm guessing because uh uh I don't know sugars contain higher
1:37:01
dutarium sugars and starch than um proteins and then proteins have higher dutarium than fats. So that's why if
1:37:07
you're heavy on the fats you're getting less digarium. One of the areas you commonly see the dutarium depleted water
1:37:13
like you're drinking is in cancer. Oh, absolutely. Yes. In people that are fighting cancer. So
1:37:20
for you is part of the reason you're consuming that prevention of cancer.
1:37:25
Definitely. And in fact, I wrote a paper on cancer recently or I think a couple papers. I'm fascinated with cancer and
1:37:31
the whole cancer metabolism which is very very different. You know, they have this um Warberg effect. Have you heard
1:37:37
of that? Oh yeah. I've had Thomas C. freed on a couple times. It comes up on the show all the time. Oh, I know him. He's great. And so, um,
1:37:46
well, the cancer cells have a very strange metabolism where they make tons and tons of, um, they they they metabolize using glycolysis. They they
1:37:53
they chew up lots of glucose and they produce lactate which they release into the circulation. Uh, and they get a
1:38:00
little bit of ATP out of that. So, they have mitochondria that even when they have mitochondria that are still
1:38:05
healthy, they don't necessarily use them to make ATP. they kind of turn them off.
1:38:10
And this means they don't have to care so much about keeping dutarium out of their mitochondria. And I actually think
1:38:15
that cancer cells trap duterium. This is what what my papers talk about. They intentionally trap dutarium. They
1:38:21
actually push protons out just like the gelled water can push the protons out. The cancer cells actually use an an
1:38:28
enzyme called BATPAS. It's different from the ones in the mitochondria. It works in the reverse. It consumes ATP
1:38:35
and pushes proteins out against a gradient. So whereas the um the other
1:38:41
the uh what do they call the fatpas the ones that are inside the mitochondria they use the proton they have they they
1:38:47
push the protons across a gradient where there's a lot less protons where they're trying to go. So the protons that want
1:38:53
to move into the other space and that provides the motive force that that turns the motor to make the ATP. So the
1:39:00
these two kinds of ATPAS are opposing each other. One of them is pushing protons against a gradient requiring
1:39:06
burning ATP and the other one is making ATP by allowing allowing proteins protons to pass through to the other
1:39:13
side where they want to go because of this increased concentration where they are. Does that make sense? So that
1:39:19
wasn't said the best way but trying to figure out how to say that sounding too complicated. No keep. These VATPAS pumps
1:39:26
are amazing because they push out protons but not deuterons and there's a fantastic paper on yeast that looked at
1:39:34
their VATPAS and found out that they they there's a quote in that paper that said that they were possibly completely
1:39:41
unable to push dutarium out like they said they they really don't um they they they're they have a very low probability
1:39:48
of pushing a duteron out. They only push out protons. So they have this very what they call a duterium kinetic isotope
1:39:54
effect. They have a very strong kinetic isotope effect and these vitp enzymes are working inside those cancer cells
1:40:01
pushing protons out to the medium leaving behind a higher dutarium
1:40:07
concentration inside the cell. So I think that cancer cells are actually I believe they're caused by dutarium
1:40:14
toxicity you know by disrupted dutarium um system and and broken mitochondria
1:40:21
systemically and the cancer actually is helping to solve the problem by releasing deterium depleted uh and
1:40:28
lactate is a deter depleted nutrient that it releases. They make massive amounts of lactate. They ship it out. it
1:40:34
can go it can feed those uh uh immune cells that that swarm the immune cells swarm into the cancer environment but
1:40:40
they don't kill the cancer you know they they they stand off and that's because they're very happy to get everything the
1:40:46
cancer is providing them the low dutarium water you know the protons and the lactate which is a low dutarium
1:40:53
nutrient and so the um the immune cells are helping the cancer cells are helping
1:40:58
the immune cells to get healthy to restore health to their mitochondria and once the immune cells are healthy, then
1:41:04
they can turn around and clear the cancer, but they won't clear it until they have enough health to do so. And the cancer is providing them with that
1:41:11
health. So, that is just like really cool to me. I think that's what's going on with cancer. Fascinating stuff. And I
1:41:17
think a good way to come full circle now that we're talking about cancer is to bring glyphosate into what you're just
1:41:23
talking about and tie that in. Absolutely. I mean that's why I think glyphosate messes up the dutarium system
1:41:30
and then when you have this duterium problem it generates cancer and that's why glyphosate is a causal factor in
1:41:35
cancer that's what I believe through this dutarium effect. Got it.
1:41:42
All right Stephanie good place to end it. Really enjoyed your book. Enjoy the conversation. You are a wealth
1:41:49
of information. We're going to link up your books, your social media, your website.
1:41:54
Great. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. This was great. Now that you're done, you're going to want to stick around here and catch this
1:42:00
other incredible episode. You don't want to miss it. I'll see you over there. When you lose weight by cutting
1:42:06
calories, your basil metabolic rate drops by about 25%. And for all
1:42:12
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